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Since 1970 October 2006
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An Interview with Author and Historian Judy Yung

Asian Pacific American Witnesses to History

I was in Dallas
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An Interview with Author and Historian Judy Yung
By Leonard D. Chan

Author and historian Judy Yung has written and contributed to many books. Her latest book San Francisco's Chinatown will be presented at an AACP, OCA of San Mateo, and San Mateo Library sponsored event on Tuesday, November 14, 7pm, at the New San Mateo Library Main Branch. Come and meet Judy Yung for what is sure to be a very fascinating evening.

Until then, here is an interview I conducted with Judy Yung.

Leonard Chan (LC)
Judy Yung (JY)

LC: Tell us about the making of your book San Francisco's Chinatown. How long did it take? Whose idea was it to make this book?

JY: Arcadia Publishing wanted a book on SF Chinatown for their series, Images of America, and approached CHSA (Chinese Historical Society of America) to do it. Sue Lee, CHSA Executor Director, asked me. I was in between projects and thought it would be a fun project, as well as a way for me to introduce my home town to readers and tourists. Having researched and collected photos on SF Chinatown for years, I thought I could do it in 3 months. It took me six months to look for more photos, do the research for the captions, and decide on the story line.

LC: Tell us about the pictures - did they all come from the CHSA?

JY: SF Chinatown must be one of the most photographed communities in the country, and the Internet made my research much easier. I got many old photos from CHSA and Phil Choy. I also found a good selection at Bancroft Library, California Historical Society, and San Francisco Public Library. Many of the contemporary photos I got from Chinatown photographers such as Harry Jew and Ben Chan. I would have used more from the San Francisco Chronicle except they charged quite a bit more than the other archives for the reproduction and use fees.

LC: Roughly how many were there and how many made it into the book?

JY: Arcadia has very specific guidelines for this series-180 to 200 photos and 128 pages. I had at least 1,000 images to choose from and ended up using 184 photos in the book.

LC: Tell us about how you chose the pictures for the book. Was it a case by case process or were you trying to match a theme?

JY: I decided to do a history of Chinatown through pictures, showing how Chinatown developed as a residential neighborhood, shopping center, business community, tourist attraction, and cultural mecca. I wanted to show daily life, historical and political events, and economic and cultural changes from the Gold Rush to present day. I organized the book into three historical periods and looked for an equal number of photos for each period to reflect these themes. Of course, the quality and "punch" of the photos was a major consideration. For example, I knew I wanted to include the photo that appears on the cover and the one of Mrs. Qiong holding the mousetrap on page 120.

LC: For our readers that don't have the book yet - the cover has a picture of some kids playing with some sand that has been dumped in the middle of an intersection in Chinatown and the Mrs. Qiong picture shows her smiling with the caption saying that she caught 39 mice in six month with that trap.

So what made these two pictures stand apart from the rest?

JY: The cover photo reminds us how American Chinese kids were in the 1930s, dressed as they were in knickers and tennis shoes and engaged in building a sand pyramid against the background of Chinatown with its neon Chop Suey signs and wall ads advertising Chinese herbs and fine arts.

The second photo is a rare shot of the interior of an elderly woman's apartment in Chinatown, showing her triumphant face in catching her 39th mouse in the last six months. Despite the living conditions of Chinatown, seniors like Mrs. Qiong still prefer living here than in the suburbs.

LC: Tell us about some of the pictures that you wish you could have included in the book. Having lived in San Francisco for most of my life, I was kind of hoping to see more of the Chinatown I remembered. Because of the limitation for the size of the book, was it tough for you to leave some of the pictures out?

JY: Space limitation was a problem. I left many of the Arnold Genthe photos of the 1890s period out because they have been widely published before. I wanted to include more photos by Chinatown photographers like Harry Jew, Benjamen Chin, Kem Lee, and Ben Chan, but that would have overloaded the 1945-2000 section. I had a hard time finding pictures of gang violence and of the 1989 earthquake, mainly because the photo files of East West and Asian Week were inaccessible. Because of space limitations, I couldn't tell the entire story of the demolition of the International Hotel.

LC: Can you tell us a little bit about these photographers?

JY: Harry Jew was an amateur photographer who took photos of Chinatown life and events from the 1940s to the 1990s. He died a few years ago. His family donated his photos to the Chinese Historical Society.

Benjamen Chinn is still alive. He worked as a photographer with the U.S. Army until he retired in 1984. Chinn studied with Ansel Adams at the California School of Arts after the war. He grew up in SF Chinatown, enjoyed photographing life in Chinatown through the years, and still lives in Chinatown today.

Ben Chan worked as a journalist and photographer for Sing Tao Newspaper in the 1980s. He now works for the city, but continues to take photos for the love of it.

Kem Lee was a major studio photographer in Chinatown from the 1940s until he died in the 1990s. He also took many photos of community events. His collection has been donated to the Ethnic Studies Library at UC Berkeley.

LC: Were you able to track down any of the Chinatown portrait photographer collections to see if any of them dabbled in non-portrait work? I've always been a little curious about the Chinatown photographers and photo studios that took pictures of my family and others during the 1920s and 30s. Know anything about them? Were there many or were there just a few of these photographers doing all the work?

JY: There were a handful of such photographers. One of the most well know was May Studios, run by Leo and May Chan. They did studio portraits and Chinese opera as well as covered community events.

LC: Will you be showing any of the left out pictures at your upcoming presentation in San Mateo? Can any of them be found on display at the CHSA museum and website?

JY: If you think people would be interested, I could show a few of the ones I left out. My slide talk mainly focuses on the photos that I included and the story I am trying to tell through the book. For anyone interested in seeing more photos of SF Chinatown, I recommend these web sites:

Library of Congress, The Chinese in California, 1850-1925

San Francisco Public Library photo collection

LC: Yes, please do show some of your favorite pictures that you couldn't get in the book.

Were the captions easy to find or were they available from the owners of the pictures? Tell us about the process of doing the research for the captions.

JY: The captions took the most time to research and write. I relied on other photo books on SF Chinatown and read many books and articles on the history of SF Chinatown (see my bibliography). I also asked people I knew in the community to help me identify some of the photos (see my acknowledgements). Arcadia only allowed me to include so much text, so every word had to count in terms of identifying the photo and making a point.

LC: There's so much that is not mentioned in the captions too. I love looking at old pictures and noticing all the little details - from the clothes people wore, to signs on windows and buildings, to the products being sold at the stores, to the brick streets and concrete utility poles, and most of all the people. Each of the pictures in your book seems rich with details. What are some of the details that you love looking for in old pictures? Can you quickly mention a few examples from the book that are not pointed out in the pictures' captions?

JY: Some examples that showed how much I was able to pack into a caption appear on page 9 (historical significance of Portsmouth Square); page 25 (barbershops and the wearing of queues); page 28 (description of Chinese opera house); pages 29-31 (Chinese prostitution); and page 71 (Fong Fong's, except I misidentified the owner as George Kao instead of Philip Fong, which Arcadia will correct in the next print run).

LC: What are some the most interesting things you learned in making this book that you didn't already know at the start?

JY: The early geographic layout and living conditions in Chinatown; the rebuilding of Chinatown after the earthquake; how foreign investments and real estate speculation forced small businesses out of Grant Avenue; funeral customs; the impact of earthquakes.

LC: You being a native San Franciscan must have personally observed many of the changes with San Francisco's Chinatown. Name some of the things you miss from the past versions of Chinatown and appreciate with the current incarnation. I personally miss some of the old foods - for example chow mein is cooked pretty differently now. The latest residents and workers of Chinatown have a different style of cooking. Know any places that still make a good peanut cake :)?

JY: I grew up in Chinatown in the 1950s when the community was less crowded and more tight-knit than today. I miss many of the old hang-outs like Fong Fong, Sun Wah Kue, and Uncle's Café. Sam Wo is the only restaurant left where I can get jook and sam jup noodles the way I like it. I miss Sun Wah Kue's peanut cake and custard pie. Eastern Bakery still offers coffee crunch cake, but it's not as good as before. I use to buy my Chinese school supplies and greeting cards at Fat Ming's, but the store has been sold and changed. I rarely eat or shop in Chinatown anymore-too crowded and hard to park. I think community organizations like Chinatown Community Development Center and Self-Help for the Elderly have done a fantastic job of cleaning up Chinatown and providing services to the elderly.

LC: Tell us a little bit about your other great book that came out this year - Chinese American Voices: From the Gold Rush to the Present.

JY: Glad you asked…The book is co-authored with historians Gordon Chang and Him Mark Lai and published by the University of California Press. Fifteen years in the making, Chinese American Voices is a diverse collection of primary documents and stories by Chinese Americans from their arrival during the California gold rush to the present. The anthology includes letters, speeches, testimonies, oral histories, personal memoirs, poems, essays, and folksongs, many of which have never been published before or have been translated into English for the first time. They bring to life the diverse voices and experiences of immigrants and the American-born; laborers, merchants, and professionals; ministers and students; housewives and prostitutes; and community leaders and activists.

LC: There's lots of interesting original historical source materials in this book. How about describing one or two pieces from that book that really piqued your interest?

JY: One of my favorite pieces is Liu Liangmo's essay on how he got Paul Robeson to introduce China's national anthem to the American period ("Paul Robeson: The People's Singer," p. 204).

Another is the description of a bone collector going around the country looking for the remains of fellow countrymen to send back to China ("The Second Exhumation and Return of the Remains of Our Departed Friends to the Homeland," p. 26).

Of course, as an oral historian, I tend to favor those selections. One of the more unique and interesting ones concern the only Chinese American to be captured by the Japanese in the Pacific war ("There but for the grace of God go I: The Story of a POW Survivor in World War II," p. 212)-soon to be published as The Adventures of Eddie Fung: Chinatown Kid, Texas Cowboy, POW Survivor, by the University of Washington Press.

LC: Ah, I thought I read something about how you were related to Eddie Fung or had some sort of connection with him and this book. Did I read correctly? Did you ever meet and get to know him? What made his story so unique?

JY: I met Eddie in 2002 when I interviewed him for my book, "Chinese American Voices." We got married in 2003. Here's a Chinese American who ran away from home to become a cowboy in Texas, ends up joining the National Guard in Texas, gets captured by the Japanese in WWII, and survives 42 months of slave labor and abuse. I found his story and character fascinating enough to write a book about it.

LC: Some of the questions I asked above for San Francisco's Chinatown could also apply here. Such as what didn't make it into this book and what were some of the most interesting things you learned in making it? You don't have to answer these questions for this book, but feel free to pick your own question and answer it.

JY: Again, because of space limitations, we couldn't include many selections, and we needed to be representative in terms of geographic location, historical period, political perspectives, and population diversity. I wished we had had the space to cover more contemporary issues like sexual orientation, media stereotypes, intermarriage and mixed race, the Vietnam War, 9/11, China politics, globalization, illegal immigration, etc.

LC: What are you working on now? I've heard you are working on a book about the complete history of Angel Island. Can you tell us anything about it? Is there anything we can help you with - such as people's personal family histories with the place? Could you use any other help with the research? Maybe some of our readers would love to help you. I wouldn't mind. When do you plan to have the Angel Island book finished?

JY: My next book project is a narrative history of Pacific immigration through Angel Island, sponsored by the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation and co-authored with Erika Lee, Associate Professor of History at the University of Minnesota and the author of At America's Gates: Chinese Immigration during the Exclusion Era, 1882-1943. Slated to be completed when the newly renovated immigration site opens in 2010, the book will encompass the experiences of immigrants from around the world, including people from China, Japan, India, the Philippines, Korea, Russia, Portugal, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Central and South America.

Approximately 400,000 immigrants were processed through the Angel Island Immigration Station, two-thirds of whom were either Chinese or Japanese. While much is known about the experiences of Chinese immigrants at Angel Island because of their long detention there and the poems they carved into the barrack walls, little has been written about the experiences of the other groups. We are particularly interested in finding documents, writings, stories, oral histories, and photographs related to the experiences of immigrant groups other than the Chinese at Angel Island. Should anyone have such information and material or wish to help with the research can contact the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation (AIISF) ( or me (please email AACP and we will forward your email to Judy Yung).

LC: Something you also worked on was the Angel Island Chinese Poetry book called Island. I heard that there have been new poetry discoveries on the Island since the publishing of that book. Any chance that these new poems may get into this book or another one? By the way, did any of the other immigrant groups leave any interesting graffiti?

JY: Close to 100 new but incomplete poems in Chinese have been found, as well as signatures by other immigrants and POWs. I will be including some of these in my next book on Pacific immigration at Angel Island that I am co-writing with Erika Lee under the sponsorship of the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation. Over half a million immigrants from 60 countries passed through Angel Island between 1910 and 1940. The Chinese was the largest group, followed by the Japanese and Russian Jews.

LC: While we're on the subject of poetry, I checked out one of your web links you supplied above and found an interesting Chinese poetry book quite by accident. Apparently a group called the Golden Gate Poetry Club created the book ( Are you familiar with this club and this book and if so what can you tell us about this group? Has the book been completely translated and published yet?

JY: Take a look at Marlon Hom's book, Songs of Gold Mountain.

LC: What is your schedule for other upcoming presentations? In case some of our reader can't make your presentation on November 14th, 7pm, at the San Mateo Main Library please let us know of other ones that you may be making.

JY: The following is my schedule of slide talks on both books:
Saturday, October 28, 2006, 2:30 pm - Chinatown Branch, San Francisco Public Library (1135 Powell Street, San Francisco, 415-355-2888) - San Francisco's Chinatown

Sunday, November 5, 2006, 2 pm - Chinatown Photographic Society (132 Waverly Place, San Francisco) - San Francisco's Chinatown

Tuesday, November 14, 2006, 7 pm - San Mateo Public Library (55 West 3rd Avenue, San Mateo, 650-522-7800) - San Francisco's Chinatown

Thursday, November 16, 2006, 7 pm - El Cerrito Public Library (6510 Stockton Avenue, El Cerrito, 510-526-7512) - San Francisco's Chinatown

Tuesday, October 24, 2006, 6 pm - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Library (150 E. San Fernando Street, 2nd Floor, Room 225, San Jose, 408-808-2397) - Chinese American Voices: From the Gold Rush to the Present

Saturday, January 22, 2007, 2 pm - Cesar Chavez Central Library (605 N. El Dorado Drive, Stockton, 209-937-8239) - Chinese American Voices: From the Gold Rush to the Present

Saturday, January 27, 2007, 2 pm - San Leandro Public Library (300 Estudillo Avenue, San Leandro, 510-577-3971) - Chinese American Voices: From the Gold Rush to the Present

LC: Do you have your own website where people can find your schedule and other information about your work?

JY: Not yet, but am working on it.

LC: Thank you very much for this interview.

Up Coming Events

Here are some events that AACP will soon be attending. Invite us to your events.
Oct. 28 San Mateo OCA's
Asian American Achievement Awards
S. SF Conv. Center
Nov. 11 Japantown Winter Arts & Crafts Boutique SJ Buddhist Church Gym
640 N. 5th St.
San Jose, CA
Nov. 11
Cynthia Chin-Lee and Felicia Hoshino signing Foster City Library
Foster City, CA
Nov. 14
Judy Yung presentation and signing SM Library
San Mateo, CA
Jan. 13, 2007 3rd Annual Poetry In San Mateo Day
A Beginning of the Year Poetry Celebration
With Poet Genny Lim
529 E. 3rd Ave.
San Mateo, CA
Other Event of Interest that AACP May Not Attend
Nov. 8-12 Nat. Assoc. for Multicultural Ed. (NAME) 2006 Conference Wyndham Hotel
Phoenix, AZ
Nov. 11-13 CA Lib. Assoc. 108th Annual Conference Sacramento Convention Center
Sacramento, CA
Nov. 16-19 CA School Lib. Assoc. Conference 2006 Sacramento Convention Center
Sacramento, CA
Nov. 18
National Pacific Islander Educator Network (NPIEN)
5th Annual Education Conference
Registration Form
Cabrillo High School
2001 Santa Fe Ave.
Long Beach, CA

Give Us Your Feedback

Please feel free to send us your reviews, comments, and book suggestions. You can contact us at -

Editor's Message

Hello Everyone,

I'll try to keep this short - there's already so much to read in this newsletter.

Lots of interesting things on our event schedule. The OCA event will have Ben Fong-Torres in attendance. So if you're going, you'll be able to get a signed copy of his new book Becoming Almost Famous.

We're also co-sponsoring two book signing events in November. I've already mentioned the Judy Yung event in the above interview. The Cynthia Chin-Lee and Felicia Hoshino event will also be fun. We hope you can come.

We are in the early stages of planning for our 3rd Annual Poetry Day. If you are a poet, please get in touch with me to let us know if you can attend our event. We'd love to have you all.

NPIEN is having their 5th Annual conference. Our schedule has a link to their registration form. We hope you can attend their event.

Thank you Philip and Howard for your article. If you were an eyewitness to history, we'd love to hear of your account.

Lastly, November is National Novel Writing Month. I hope some of you will try to write a novel and tell us about your experience. I highly recommend this event to all of you budding novelist.

I'm going to take a slightly extended layoff from writing the newsletter and get back to you all in early December. So have a Happy Thanksgiving!


Leonard Chan
Executive Editor

Asian Pacific American Witnesses to History
A Series Introduced and Edited by Philip Chin

Asian Pacific Americans have witnessed the history of the United States because we have always been part of this great nation. Let nobody say anything differently because we were there. This occasional series titled, "Asian American Witnesses to History" will present reader submitted stories about your experiences witnessing the events of American history.

What was the genesis of this idea? When I was attending classes at San Francisco State University I saw a big crowd in front of the school gymnasium. I stood next to a little old black lady for awhile wondering what everyone was standing around for but had to go to class before finding out. Later on the TV news the event was mentioned and I realized the lady I'd been standing next to had been Rosa Parks, the civil rights pioneer whose protest against segregated busing had galvanized the civil rights movement of the 1950s.

In 2005 when Rosa Parks died I reminisced with some other Asian Americans about our brushes with history and suddenly realized that many Asian Americans must have been part of an American history that has disappeared. Read any American history textbook today and you would think that all of American history has been a Caucasian and African American affair with some occasional Latino interloper fading in and fading out just as quickly. Where were the Asian American stories in the textbooks? Judging from that you would think the only Asian American contributions to American history were the Chinese building the Transcontinental Railroad, getting banned from coming to the United States with the Chinese Exclusion Acts, and the Japanese Americans getting locked up during World War II.

Chinese, Filipino, Southeast Asian, and Arab sailors were crewing the Spanish galleons visiting the Americas in the 16th Century. The first Chinese officially recorded in the US were in Baltimore, Maryland in 1785, right at the birth of the United States. Surely in all that time we must have been eyewitnesses to the great events. Dozens, perhaps even hundreds of Asian Americans, are documented as having served on both sides during the American Civil War, yet not a single one of their stories is publicly known. By telling our own stories Asian Americans can show that we have a place in the history of this country and aren't the perpetual foreigners that some ignorant people like to paint us as.

With this in mind, we begin our series with an account by Howard Fong. Here is some background information for readers that may be unfamiliar with the particulars of this incident.

On November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. A former Marine, Lee Harvey Oswald, who'd defected to the Soviet Union but later returned to the US, was arrested later in the day accused of shooting dead a Dallas police officer. Because of his background and the job he held at the Dallas School Book Depository where the shots that killed the president were thought to have come from, he immediately came under suspicion. While being transferred at the city jail, Oswald was shot to death by Jack Ruby, a Dallas strip club owner, dying from cancer, who said he did it for Jackie Kennedy, the wife of the slain president. The assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald remain two of the most troubling and mysterious events in American history.

I Was in Dallas
By Howard Fong

I was in Dallas, Texas on November 24, 1963, on the day that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald. I was returning from Ft. Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas from a Desert Strike military exercise viewed by around 40 U.S. allied generals and Chief of Staff General Maxwell D. Taylor. I was assigned to the Public Information Office from the 85th Evac Hospital in Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas to aid the captain in charge of dealing with the press.

I took the Greyhound bus back, as it was cheaper than flying, even with a military discount. The bus stopped in Dallas, Texas. So, I spent a day there to see the site of the assassination of JFK. My hotel was across the street from the Dallas City Jail where Lee Harvey Oswald was held and waiting to be transferred to the county jail.

Jack Ruby's Pink Palace honky-tonk burlesque, with a big red heart on the double door, was down the block from the entrance of the jail.

While waiting in front of the crowd, I heard a gunshot, "bang," Then someone behind me in the crowd yelled, "He escaped!" The crowd then surged to the left side of the entrance. A news reporter started interviewing people in the rushing crowd. About 15 minutes later, a bubbled glassed ambulance headed in the direction of the crowd, where I was standing, exiting the driveway and turning to my right. I could see the short-haired, lanky Lee Harvey Oswald lying in the gurney, with his head towards the rear ambulance door. He was still alive, as I learned later that day.

I went to the phone booth around the corner of the jail building, across from my hotel, and started to call my Mom. I was only 19 then. A huge white hand yanked me out of the phone booth and caused me to fall to the ground. A big white man with tousled red hair yelled at me, "Get out of the phone booth, son. History is in the making!" I then said to myself, "What about my civil rights?" It was just commonsense thinking on my part to ask that question. I was in my enlisted dress green Army uniform. I then realized that I had no civil rights. Soon after, other reporters fought their way into using that phone, the only telephone booth nearby.

I picked myself off the ground and walked to Dealy Plaza, near the roadway where JFK's motorcade passed and where he was shot. On the adjacent grass and near a waist-high shrub, I started looking for bullets or their fragments. The area wasn't roped off then. Other people were walking around Dealy Plaza, too. Unfortunately, I didn't have my Nikon F camera with me, which I bought in the Post Exchange for $180, while serving in South Korea. I was on a special assignment with the Desert Strike Exercise and had a top secret security clearance. For that reason, I didn't bring my camera with me.

Oh, I never did get to call my Mom that day. I called her about it later, on my way back to Ft. Chaffee, at a bus stop telephone booth in another town. The bus ride took 18 hours to cover the 1,300 miles and stops along the way.

I never told anyone on base about what I had seen. The JFK assassination was an overwhelming event. It wasn't until many years later did I finally talk about it to a few people. But I can still remember the details as if it happened yesterday.


The following books are discounted for subscribers to our newsletter. The discounts on these books end November 20, 2006.

Becoming Almost Famous
My Back Pages in Music, Writing, and Life

By Ben Fong-Torres
2006, 249 pages, Paperback.

Ever wish you had a backstage glimpse of the music world? Becoming Almost Famous is just that. This is writer and editor Ben Fong-Torres' second compilation volume of some of his favorite articles on the rock and pop music, and entertainment scenes. Ben Fong-Torres' is one of the true eyewitnesses to more than three decades of music history. His added prologues and epilogues to his original articles give you further insight into this fascinating world. This is definitely a hard book to put down.

View Additional Information
ORDER -- Item #3430, Price $16.95

Akira to Zoltán
Twenty-Six Men Who Changed the World

By Cynthia Chin-Lee
Illustrated by Megan Halsey and Sean Addy
2006, 32 pages, Paperback.

Akira to Zoltán is author Cynthia Chin-Lee's follow-up book to Amelia to Zora which highlighted women that changed the world. In this book men from different fields, including the arts, exploration, and science as well as leaders of peaceful movements are featured.

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ORDER -- Item #3431, Price $15.95

The Great Race
The Story of the Chinese Zodiac

By Dawn Casey
Illustrated by Anne Wilson
2006, 30 pages, Hardback.

The Great Race is a new retelling of the myth behind the creation of the Chinese zodiac calendar. The Jade Emperor holds a race among the animals with the top 12 finishers having a year named after them. The Great Race includes an informative appendix about the animals of the Chinese zodiac and about some commonly celebrated Chinese festivals.

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ORDER -- Item #3432, Price $16.99

Mayor of the Roses

By Marianne Villanueva
2005, 181 pages, Paperback.

Mayor of the Roses is a collection of well-written short stories by Filipina American author Marianne Villanueva. Her writing draws you in and keeps you reading even when the subject matter may be quite violent or sad. Warning, the first story is not appropriate for young readers.

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ORDER -- Item #3433, Price $13.00

While We Were Out

By Ho Baek Lee
2003, 29 pages, Hardback.

While We Were Out is a delightfully cute story about a rabbit that explores her owners' home while they are away. The rabbit's sojourn of the dwelling and left behind evidence of her visit will amuse children and adults alike.

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ORDER -- Item #3429, Price $15.95

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